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The Bible says: Women are defiling to men!

By
Karim
(He is a new convert to Islam, from the Netherlands)

 

 

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. (Revelation 14:1-5 NIV)

 

 

Some christians argue us and say that Revelation 14:4 is referring to those sinless men who stayed away from fornication and adultery, and it is not meant at all to be degrading or insulting to women.  Our response to them is:   The verse does not say "those who did not defile themselves with fornication or adultery".  Have the verse said that, then it would've included both males and females and there would be nothing to disagree about.

 

Even if their argument about Revelation 14:4 is true (which is not) , then this is still insulting for all women, because the Bible chose to substitute the naming of "Babylon's prostitutes" to "women", making it sound like the majority of women, if not all women, are defiling to men.

 

Since the verse clearly and irrefutably says: "those who did not defile themselves with women", this means (1) No females will be among those men; and (2) Women are defiling to men.

 

You will notice that in discussions about this issue with christians they only quote commentaries (about revelation 14:4) which claim that revelation 14;4 is a figurative speech (why? And why have there been many discussions between christians about the true meaning of this verse, maybe because some just can’t accept the proof for the literal meaning of this verse), you will never see them quote great works of Theoligical Bible scholars who confirm the ‘literal meaning’ of this verse (why ?), the proof for literal interpretation is strong and sufficient and clearly supported in the scripture itself.

 

Dear christian reader, be honest and read carefully the christian commentaries and works we quote in this article, and pay close attention to the (insulting) language used to women (women in general are mentioned NOT ‘the women’ ) in Revelation 14:4 and check the references about the bible scholars we quote in our article.

 

 

 

- David Guzik's Commentary on Revelation

 

 

3. (4-5) The description of the 144,000.  

These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.

 

a. For they are virgins: Many take the virginity of the 144,000 as simply a symbol of their general purity (as in 2 Corinthians 11:2).  But Paul recommended celibacy in distressing times (1 Corinthians 7:25-35), and Jesus spoke of woes upon those with children and families in that day (Matthew 24:19-21).  It isn’t hard to see that God would specially call 144,000 to a literal celibacy for the kingdom’s sake during the time of the great tribulation.

 

Some most commonly apply the term virgins to women, not men.  So does the use of virgins here mean that all the 144,000 are women?  Not at all, according to the great Greek scholar A.T. Roberston: “Parthenos can be applied to men as well as women.”

Source:  http://calvarychapel.com/ccbcgermany/commentaries/6614.htm

 

 

- Dr. Constable's Bible Study Notes:  

 

 

Bible Commentary, Dr Constable’s Notes on Revelation, page 129 :

 

14:4  Three occurrences of "these" (Gr. houtoi) in this verse identify the144,000 as worthy of special honor. First, with women (emphatic in the

Greek text) they had not been defiled because they were celibates (Gr.parthenoi, virgins). Should we understand this word literally or

figuratively? Literally the text would mean that these males had no sexual relations with women.

 

"One of the special criteria for these slaves of God was that they have no intercourse with women. . . . So in the future

Great Tribulation, virginity will be requisite for this special group." (Thomas, Revelation 8—22, p. 195. Cf. Alford, 4:685-86; Newell, pp. 215-16; Wiersbe, 2:607)

 

Figuratively it would mean that they had remained faithful to the Lord, as the NIV translation "they kept themselves pure" suggests (cf. 2 Kings

19:21; Isa. 37:22; Jer. 18:13; 31:4, 21; Lam. 2:13; Amos 5:2; 2 Cor. 11:2). "It is better . . . to relate the reference to purity to the

defilement of idolatry. In fact, John seems to use molyno[defile] this way elsewhere of cult prostitution (3:4; cf.

2:14, 20, 22)."467

 

I think the balance of evidence is slightly in favor of the literal interpretation. If this seems too severe, it may be helpful to remember that

Paul advised the Corinthians to remain unmarried because of the nature of the distressing times in which they lived (1 Cor. 7:26; cf. Matt. 19:12).  A figurative interpretation of "celebates" could be the correct one, however .Of course, both may be true; they may be unmarried and faithful spiritually.468

 

 

Second, the 144,000 receive special commendation because they followedthe Lamb faithfully during their lives. This was especially difficult due to

the time in which they lived, the Great Tribulation.Third, they receive honor because they not only experienced purchase by

God but because they were firstfruits to God. Some view this as expressing the idea that they are the first of others who will follow,

specifically believers who will enter the Millennium as living believers.469

However there will be no others who follow that are just like the 144,000;they are unique. Probably the firstfruits figure represents them as a special

gift to God. This is the idea behind two-thirds of the references tofirstfruits in the Old Testament.470

 

 

466Thomas, Revelation 8—22, p. 195. Cf. Alford, 4:685-86; Newell, pp. 215-16; Wiersbe, 2:607.

467Johnson, p. 539. Cf. Walvoord, The Revelation . . ., p. 216; Ladd, p. 191.

468McGee, 5:1008.

469Walvoord, The Revelation . . ., p. 216; Ryrie, p. 89; Smith, A Revelation . . ., pp. 210-11.

470Thomas, Revelation 8—22, p. 198.

Source: http://www.soniclight.com/constable/notes/pdf/revelation.pdf  (see page 129)

 

Note: (Dr. Thomas L. Constable, Th.D., the Department Chairman and Senior Professor of Bible Exposition at Dallas Theological Seminary)

 

 

 

 

 - Ray C. STedman comments on Revelation 14:4:

 

 

THE TIME OF HARVEST

by Ray C. Stedman

Second, we are told they kept themselves for the Lord only. They were separated unto him. The phrase is, "they did not defile themselves with women." Now don't get upset, ladies. These are not chauvinists; they are celibates. This is not a put-down of marriage, or of sex. It is a reference to what these 144,000 would do. For them to be married would be defiling because it is outside the will of God for them. That is all this means. They are separated unto the Lord to be his, just as the Apostle Paul was. Paul tells us in several places that he was committed to celibacy. He was single, and he devoted his life to the Lord as an unmarried man. He knew it was not the will of God for him to be married. So these men follow Christ completely. They are free to do so without any ties with anyone else because they were called to a dangerous and demanding work and needed to be unencumbered in following the Lamb wherever he went.

 

Source: http://www.pbc.org/dp/stedman/revelation/4206.html

 

Title: The Tim of the of Harvest
Series: Revelation
Scripture: Revelation 14:1-20
Message No: 18
Catalog No: 4206
Date: March 18, 1990

 

 

 

 

 

-The Seventh Trumpet: The Seven Bowls Pending -Victorious Followers of the Lamb by Robert L. Thomas:

 

The Seventh Trumpet: The Seven Bowls Pending --- Victorious Followers of the Lamb 
by Robert L. Thomas

 

Revelation 14:4-5 furnishes a few added features regarding the 144,000. They will be unmarried men, and thus free to render undistracted service for the Lord, the kind of service Paul spoke about in 1 Corinthians 7:26. The future Great Tribulation when they function as witnesses will be an unusual time in history, one requiring an especially high degree of dedication. Virginity will be required for this special group during this special time.

 

(quoted from the ‘Ankerberg Theological Research Institute’ site)

 

Source: http://www.ankerberg.com/Articles/biblical-prophecy/BP1001W3.htm

 

 

Note: ( Robert L. Thomas (Ph.D., Dallas Theological Seminary) is professor of New Testament at The Master’s Seminary. He is the author or coauthor of numerous books and other works, including the commentaries on 1 and 2 Thessalonians in the Holt series )

 

Check his book (Commentary on Revelation 8-22) at:    http://store.cookienest.com/reviews/revelation-8-22-an-exegetical-commentary-wycliffe-exegetical-commentary
-id0802492673.php
  (check the praisefull comments from christians about his commentary)

 

 

 

 

More proof from bible websites with honest commentary :

 

 

144,000 MALE, VIRGIN JEWS:

(quoted from) 2-THE 144,000 JEWS 

The 144,000 Jews were sealed with the seal of the living God-ref Rev 7:2-4. They have their FATHER'S NAME WRITTEN IN (or on) THEIR FOREHEADS-Rev 14:1. There are 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel. The tribe of Dan is omitted. They are male, virgin Jews that have not known a woman; no guile is found in their mouth. They are without fault before the throne of God.Following God's supernatural destruction of the invading forces against Israel, the 144,000 believe and go forth preaching the Everlasting Gospel and the Gospel of the Kingdom over all the earth. They will preach to fear God, to give glory to God, the message of salvation, and the message of the judgments that are now being brought upon the earth. Many will get saved as a result of the 144,000 anointed ones of God. However, those that do come to Christ, by faith, will suffer horrible persecutions. Many will have to flee for their lives as time progresses. Many will eventually be beheaded for their faith in Jesus.What ultimately happens to the 144,000 is not clear.

(quoted from) 9-THE 144,000 MALE, VIRGIN JEWS:  WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM?

 

Rev 14:4-THESE ARE THEY (or the ones) WHICH WERE NOT DEFILED WITH WOMEN; FOR THEY ARE VIRGINS (or they kept themselves pure-NIV). These appear to have never been married and never been intimate with a woman. (There are those that disagree with this.) Some consider the virginity mentioned here is not of a sexual nature but is referring to spiritual purity. However, the fact that women are mentioned, in connection with this, indicates this means exactly what it says.

 

Source: http://www.parentalguide.com/Documents/Bible_Prophecy/144000_Jews.htm

  

And:

 

A Commentary on the Book of Revelation (Chapter 14) The 144,000 and the Victorious Judgment of the Lamb:

"4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."

In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul speaks of the entire Body of Believers as a "chaste virgin", i.e., "For I am jealous over you with Godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to One Husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin [Greek, parthenos] to Christ" (2Corinthians 11:2). The Apostle John also uses the Greek word parthenos, in describing the 144,000 as "virgins" (14:4). Virginity, though it most often describes a woman who has not known a man sexually, was also used to identify both the men and women of Israel, i.e., "This is the Word which the LORD hath spoken concerning him [Sennacherib king of Assyria]; The virgin, the daughter of Zion, hath despised thee, and laughed thee to scorn; the daughter of Jerusalem hath shaken her head at thee" (Isaiah 37:22). However, the "virgins" (14:4) here described, "were not defiled with women" (14:4), seems to indicate that the 144,000 are unmarried and chaste men, who will abstain from marriage during the difficult days of the Tribulation Week. Even the married Saints of these Last Days, as much as possible, should dedicate themselves more to the LORD than their devotion to their cherished spouses. "But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none" (1Corinthians 7:29).

source: http://www.whatsaiththescripture.com/The.Holy.Bible/Commentary.Revelations.14.html

 

 

 

 

Proof inside the bible scripture itself:

 

1 Cor. 7:1 – Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch (greek word = a&ptomai/ to touch) a woman.

 

 

(greek dictionary)  a&ptomai :

1.to fasten one's self to, adhere to, cling to

A: to touch

B: of carnal intercourse with a women or cohabitation

C: of levitical practice of having no fellowship with heathen practices. Things not to be touched appear to be both women and certain kinds of food, so celibacy and abstinence of certain kinds of food and drink are recommended.

D: to touch, assail anyone

Source: http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=680&version=kjv



1 Corinthians 7:9 - But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. 

(the special group mentioned in revelation 14:4 will certainly have self-control, since They follow the Lamb wherever he goes’ , and ‘They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb ‘, this verse further proves the unmarried state of the 144.000)

 

 

(so even if you are married, it is good for a man not to touch his wife or have intercourse with her, not that it is a sin, but it is good to abstain from touching/having sex with your wife, how can this be an advise, since marriage is based on mutual comfort ? )

 

 

Christians explain paul words as followed:

 

‘Considering the distress of those times, the unmarried state was best ‘

(source: http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/?action=getCommentaryText&cid=54&source=2&seq=i.53.7.4)

 

 

 

Well what about the GREAT DISTRESSFULL TIME  mentioned in Revelation 14:4, this christian claim clearly proofs that Revelation 14:4 is talking about unmarried men ‘who were not defiled with women’ (according to their scripture).

 

 

 

1 Corinthians 7:28 - But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.  (Paul makes sure without doubt that: ‘the ones who are married  shall have trouble in the flesh’ )

 

 

 

Bible Commentary, People's New Testament , Corinthians, Chapter VII

 

SUMMARY.--Marriage the Resource Against Social Sins. Not to be Lightly Dissolved. The Mutual Obligations. The Unmarried State Freest from Trouble in Times of Persecution. But Neither Husband (who is already married before paul’s advise) nor Wife to Leave Each Other. If They Should, to Remain Unmarried. Not to Abandon an Unbelieving Husband or Wife Because of their Unbelief. To Rest Content with the Secular State in which One is Converted. The Treatment of Virgin Daughters. Let Them Marry Under Certain Conditions. Under Others, Best Not to Marry in those Critical Times. The Remarriage of Widows.

28. But and if thou marry. Still, while it seemed prudent, with impending persecution, not to marry, it was not wrong to do so. Nevertheless, those who did, should have trouble in the flesh. Anxiety and distress on account of their domestic ties.

34. There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The sole thought of the unmarried person who is consecrated to Christ is to please Christ.

35. This I speak . . . not that I may cast a snare. Not to interfere with your freedom to marry. A snare thrown over the head made the victim helpless. Paul merely advises what, under the circumstances of that period, seemed most prudent.

Source: http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/PeoplesNewTestament/pnt.cgi?book=1co&chapter=7#1Co7_28

 

 

1 Corinthians 7:32-But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:

1 Corinthians 7:33-But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.  

1 Corinthians 7:34-There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

1 Corinthians 7:35-And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.

 

Some information about pauls judgement in 1 Corinthians 7  (according to christians, it was the advice of the holy spirit)

The Authority

Paul says concerning these virgins, "I have no command of the Lord." Again, as in verse 12, Paul points out that Jesus gave no direct teaching on singleness, although He alluded to it in Matthew 19:12. Yet the apostle's teaching is no less divine and authoritative. When the Lord stated a command, Paul quoted it. And when the Lord gave no command while He was on earth, Paul made that clear. In verse 12 Paul said, "To the rest speak I not the Lord." In other words, "Here's an issue Jesus did not speak on, so I'm going to address it."

1. Paul's conviction

Paul says in verse 25, "I give my judgement." Paul is simply saying there were issues that the Lord Himself addressed and there were some He did not. But when the Lord did not speak about a particular issue, His apostle's often did, and it came as though it were straight from Him. Sometimes when the apostles spoke, they gave absolute, authoritative commands, but on other occasions, they gave only guidelines because there could be no absolutes. Paul, in this passage, is giving a guideline for living in the present age. Because all Scripture is inspired by God (2 Tim. 3:16), this is not just Paul's advice, but the advice of the Holy Spirit, through the apostle

Source: http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/1831.htm

 

 

And:

Matthew 21:19-And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!  (in other words those who are married)

Matthew 21:20-But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Matthew 21:21-For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matt. 19:10-11-- The disciples said to Him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry." But [Jesus] said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given.

 

 

 

Conclusion:

Christians who wanne claim that it is impossible to take Revelation 14:4 litery should pay close attention to the verses we mentioned above, clearly the bible doesn’t say that sexual intercourse or marriage is a sin, but it clearly praises ‘unmarried’ men, specially in difficult times, which will be in revelation 14:4 (time of the beast)

Revelation 14:4 clearly and irrefutably says: "those who did not defile themselves with women (not ‘the women’ but ‘WOMEN’ , yep women in  general are adressed  and not ‘the women’ as symbolic term! )  ", which means (1) No females will be among those men; and (2) Women are defiling to men.

Barclay: "If we are to treat it honestly, we cannot avoid the conclusion that it praises celibacy and virginity and belittles marriage." (source: William Barclay, op. cit., p. 107.)

the statement "for they are virgins" is, after all, a further explanation of the statement that ‘These are those who did not defile themselves with women,’ (Revelation 14:4)’


Therefore the most honest and correct interpretation of Revelation 14:4 is:

 

Revelation 14:4


(1) These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste. (2) There are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. (3) These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb. (4) And no lie was found in their mouth; they are blameless.


1. These are the ones (men) who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste = is the first of four descriptive clauses that define who the 144,000 are. Molunein (literally, to make dirty) is used in a figurative sense here to mean to defile or stain (Louw-Nida, 53.34). Louw and Nida add the following comment, "to cause something to be ceremonially impure, with the implication of serious defilement." John is clearly focusing on the ritual purity of this group. The implication here is that these men have never had sexual intercourse. John does not state why these men adopted celibacy as a lifestyle. However, Jesus indicates in Matthew 19:12 that some men make "themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven." Obviously, since these are men and not boys, the decision to be celibate must have been made before Daniel’s Seventieth Week began. This explains why 144,000 are called bond-servants of God in Revelation 7:3. This is an excellent sign to watch for in Israel. Such a large group of men committing themselves to God in this way will be hard to miss.


Some have suggested that spiritual celibacy be intended here. That is, the 144,000 remained faithful to the Lord and did not commit spiritual immorality with the woman presented in Revelation 17-18. However, the text refers to women and not the woman. For they have kept themselves chaste further defines this unique group. Literally, the Greeks says, For they are virgins (parthenoi). Parthenoi usually refers to women exclusively. Here it refers to men only. These men have not engaged in sexual intercourse. They are Jewish celibates. Some have attempted to make "the women" refer to "the woman" of Revelation 17. However, this is unlikely. There is both a ritual and moral purity ascribed to the 144,000.


Source: http://www.revelationcommentary.org/14_chapter.html

Source: http://www.revelationcommentary.org/pdf/revelationcommentary.pdf  (check 14:4)

 

http://www.revelationcommentary.org/


CONTRIBUTORS

Robert Van Kampen - (1938-1999) Author of numerous eschatological books and Founder of Sola Scriptura and The Sign Ministries, was a graduate of Wheaton College, a leading Christian businessman, co-founder of churches and missions agencies, and was founder of The Scriptorium. The Van Kampen Collection is the largest private collection of manuscripts, artifacts, scrolls and early printed editions of the Bible in the world today. He held an honorary doctoral degree in humane letters from Indiana Wesleyan University.

Rev. Bill Lee-Warner - (1946-2001) Bill was a graduate of Oregon State University, received his M.Div. from Western Evangelical Seminary, and pastored churches for more than twenty years. He served Sola Scriptura and The Sign Ministries as a writer, lecturer, and editor.

Rev. Charles Cooper - Instructor, Biblical Research & Education, Sola Scriptura, graduated from Ouachita Baptist University then went on to Dallas Theological Seminary and received a Master of Theology degree. After graduate school, Charles taught Homiletics and Hermeneutics at Moody Bible Institute for six and a half years.

Gary Vaterlaus - Instructor, Biblical Research & Education, Sola Scriptura, a graduate of Oregon State University, Gary worked at the U.S. Embassy in Moscow before attending Western Conservative Baptist Seminary and starting a Christian publishing ministry in Russia. As an Instructor, Gary responds to correspondence and teaches the prewrath position nationwide.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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